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How to transcend fear in business and life

Author Brian Germain on overcoming anxiety and fear

 Brian on Linked In

Brian on Linked In

We are honored and privileged today to share an online chat (not quite a fireside chat), with three-time author Brian Germain. Brian is probably best known for his book Transcending Fear and he shares his insights, wisdom, knowledge, and expertise. The chat was planned for only 30 minutes but we easily used almost an hour as we cover the range of fear elements in life and business.

Key Facts About Brian:

  • After earning a BA in Psychology from the University of Vermont, Brian founded "Vermont Skydiving Adventures" parachute school at the age of twenty five, which he owned and operated for several years. At this small operation on the Canadian border, Brian trained many now-world-renowned skydivers with his unique and heart-driven methodology.
  • He has over 15,000 (yes 15 thousand) skydive parachute jumps
  • That is when his tragic paraglider collapse changed his life forever. For the next two years, Brian had to focus his efforts on the physical and mental healing process. As part of his path to recovery, he set his sights on preventing the same tragedy from befalling other parachutists. 
  • Brian's innovative work earned him a Patent for "Valved Apparatus for Ram-Air Canopies" (US Patent #5,573,207), a design that has been utilized in thousands of parachutes all over the world.

This is ideal for any business leader, entrepreneur or person going through change. Brian shares how to identify the causes of fear in others and yourself. He is no stranger to this field of study. Brian's academic background in outdoor and fear psychology makes his a well-respected source. He is not shy of fear as an accomplished world-class skydiver known as the go-to source for safety.

We cover how to overcome fear and explore how anxiety and fear are connected. Personal cases are explored from a fear of snakes to accountability in producing life safety equipment and the process of change management.

We go a lot deeper here than a typical short article such as these tips issued in Forbes on 5 ways to overcome fear with your side hustle. Indeed. you will discover not just headlines but the actual emotions, variables and cognitive factors needed to win.

We expand on many of the impacts and responses to fear within the body. Another worthy review of Fear and The Brain can be found online in the form of a virtual exhibition by the California Science Centre. 

You can listen to our chat here.

You can also watch the chat here.

How to win against fear - Presentation by JAMSO via Slideshare

 

Here is a summary transcription version from our chat.

Brian

If you are wondering why I've got a visitor sticker on it's because I've been volunteering at school taking kids out into nature with Laura so pushing their fear boundaries back not starting today we have a very special guest with us who is coming from Denmark and of course the accent will probably throw you because he's got a British accent.

00:47

but James Doyle is a CEO of a company called JAMSO and he's got a whole lot of really interesting perspective on the business aspect of transcending fear and has some really good questions I'm really looking forward to this interview.

01:04

So that further ado welcome James well we're green. What did you what did you want to get into?

James

01:22

The areas that I'm looking at really is your book "Transcending Fear" it's a massive message to organizations plus people who are thinking about starting a business plus the people who are looking at change. 

03:14

We've both got a passion for outdoors and a shared passion for skydiving.

I know you more than what you know me because I've been watching your videos I've been listening to you on the podcast and I think that's a guy who can offer a lot of interest and value.

Basically in the hope that this content can give something out to my market. Hopefully then that'll attract for you to get a phone call for a meeting for a presentation a keynote or whatever else who knows what that could be.

03:57

The concept of transcending fear and your research, that you've done behind that, because that's quite a specialist gift that you have. That's what you can offer,  some insights there and I think an entrepreneur or a manager or as will see technologies changing where you've got digitization of employment yeah how are people going to get over those fears of change how can they embrace that'? How do they recognize that what they think is frustration or resistance he's actually a fear right?

I don't know if you feel that's a good match for our chat?

Brian

04:51

Yes.

and It's amazing other it fear manages to pop its ugly head into so many different things and disguise itself so effectively.

I mean anger in particular as you say frustration but you know it's grander forms if louder forms that it seems to me that it fear shows its mark if you if you strip away all of the illusions that it creates around itself you know the ego doesn't want to admit that it's afraid no nobody ever wants to admit it is that there isn't change that's the indicator right.

If you if you have a topic where there is some sort of risk with whether it is perceptual right internal or some tangible thing I could get hurt I could lose money I could lose my career I could lose my relationship all of these things are real I mean even though it's just internal even if it's just a hunter heart rate that creates a physical discomfort in the body right either way it's something that creates an aversion which means that you're not going to be making change and if you're not making change in that area you're not making improvement.

 Embrace the challenge

Embrace the challenge

You're not making an increase in safety or an expansion of your earning power and the expansion of your business that you're experiencing some sort of fear and that's the hallmark isn't it. So for me the important message to start off with is that transcending fear does not mean being without fear.

I don't know anybody short of you know surgery on your amygdala you know brain surgery its going to allow you to experience that reality of zero fear.

I've said it many times in many different ways that the brave people are simply folks that are not afraid of being afraid in the same way that fit people are people who are not afraid of feeling the physical discomfort of exercise

 

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James

07:04

And that’s the interesting part because fear and motivation in many ways they're almost run in parallel it's just as how the person reacts to the challenge. It could be a motivator or it can turn into an anxiety or a fear reaction. 

What's the characteristics to differentiate that?

Brian

07:28

Well of course in our history right our life history and the habits that we create as a result create these just natural tendencies when you receive the physical discomfort of fear do you shy away from it and then create an environment where you don't have to confront that specific thing. That is the most common response to any challenge is to avoid the challenge and from there I think we it's important to expand beyond - to say well what am I choosing right so I have this experience of the aversion, I have the experience of the negative physiological aspects in the cognitive aspects that it suggests in terms of thought and action.

So then what right and there has to be a game plan yeah and I think that's one of the biggest differences is those that have finally taken a closer look on a grander scale what does fear do to me is it good or is it bad really yeah is it really actually somehow helping is it beneficial or is it something that I just need to immediately have an instinct of distaste for the emotion, not self-hatred not embarrassment forgiveness for how what I'm naturally feeling is just being alive sometimes we get freaked out but if you have a game plan for that experience and have a trigger though I'm going to take a deep breath and calm myself down and reappraise my initial conclusion.

James

09:16

So you're saying you if you can identify through things like procrastination, is the avoidance process. 

If you are a business person, a budding entrepreneur,  as a person who wants to do something that is always on the list that list. The bucket list the whatever list yeah and it doesn't quite ever and get there it doesn't ever quite become an event or there's an excuse because something else is more important.

Does journaling help there as part of the reappraisal?

What kind of systems would you suggest someone could analyze and review?

As a leader or manager, how can you share to other people and say okay how are you reacting to this new technology to a new change or it's a new skill or whatever it is, these are the key elements to consider how could you suggest that someone should go about?

Brian

10:22

I think your journaling is a great idea.

But now, of course, we've got many different forms of journaling right you can you can do a video log that our

 Part of the process of transcending fear

Part of the process of transcending fear

Video blog that nobody ever sees right you'll have a voice recorder that you just chat as you're in traffic or whatever swirling on a piece of paper is not the only way to journal and some people really relate very well to having a pen in their hand and the tactile experience of that's great that's fine but don't judge yourself and one of the things that we have to consider is that we often will need a mirror another human being that is going to be non-judgmental.

Because of initial rules set up with this conversation we're not going to be assigning value one way or another we're not going to have what we call my business therapeutic aggression where we have an opinion that we're going to force upon others we're just going to listen to each other and try to hold up a mirror and then say you know well here's what I hear.

Here's I'm hearing from you. Often times we've been justifying bullshitting ourselves basically about why we're procrastinating why we're in a stagnation mode and it's very obvious to anybody that's listening but it's a story that we've brainwashed ourselves with over and over and over through these repeated thoughts that I can't because of this and I can't because of this right and we find ourselves stuck full-circle thinking ourselves into the same situation that we're in so to have that mirror of another human being it doesn't have to be a professional it just it has to be somebody loves us.

James

12:08

 Deming theory of improvement

Deming theory of improvement

If you look at like quality improvement systems so you got Deming and other greats out there if you look at plan-do-check-act as a wheel of a process of improvement. A process of performing in doing one of the points is you've touched on it the cognitive biases of a person too as opposed to having the mirror which is the critical thinking skills that are required to use them to write and to say okay are these force and opinions I have.

How much based on fact and reality really are they and so by encouraging to do more research to challenge I guess the opinion there and the thoughts they could well be validated but equally that could well be some opportunities and say well actually okay I was scared so now let's get on with it now.

13:14

Brian:

Yeah, absolutely objectivity I think is the only place that sanity can find its way back into the ego a consciousness. Yeah, because it's the self, the vulnerable, that can experience fear. The version of me that is baring attention of the world that is not vulnerable in terms of ego blows and the self-hatred that comes as a result of failure. All that stuff comes from me, me, me.

And when I step out and above that and I just observe the world without judgement of myself then I'm able to really begin this process of transcending fear in a much more powerful way than my ego ever could and so I think this we have to take a look at where the fear is coming from.

And whether it's valid right because they're mean there may be a reason why we're actually afraid that requires change right my gut telling me that I'm sitting by the door of an airplane getting ready to jump out and I've forgotten something right I forgot my parachute or I forgot to put my goggles on or my seat belts still attached to the aircraft.

If my gut is talking to me in this sublimated sort of ways where there is an emotional physiological emotional response that's occurring that is my unconscious awareness yes speaking in the only way that it can which is through my body something needs to change something's off I got to solve this problem that's fine that's great and that's to me that is not fear though that's a different kind of fear.

It's like to me that's caution that's body wisdom- There's a lot of different possible names but when it becomes the problematic fear is when it's this on and on repeating process that I'm self-traumatizing, where I'm self-inducing this paralysis through these broken records or repeating thought patterns that are not serving me anymore

 

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15:25

James

How do you identify the difference between anxiety and fear?

15:32

Brian

Well, I don't. It's a scale.

Aniety + Fear? To me, it’s part of the same system of my amygdala stoking the fire of the energy in my body leading me to the fight-flight or freeze responses.
— Brian Germain

So at the highest level you have a heart attack you know you have screaming in panic you have locked up and not being able to physically move when the building is on fire you know that sort of thing and on the bottom end I barely even notice it maybe I don't even notice that my behavior patterns have been changing its other people who know me who are in the room with me.

They know that I'm exerting anxiety they're like they feel that they notice my speech is faster and the tone and my voice is different, the "tells" as you would say in poker or something right my tells are probably you most people are not obvious to me. And so to me that's the lowest level of anxiety and this scale is there are this big differences in how it feel.

But it's to me it's part of the same system of my amygdala stoking the fire of the energy in my body leading me to the fight-flight or freeze responses.

James

16:44

Right okay, so again that's something that everyone can connect to since they've been six months old through to all the way through our lives there's no question about that and that applies in business.

This applies to decisions so again you've referred earlier to saying okay you need to have a mirror there to help identify those points.

You're also saying accountability from your colleagues from your work friends so to say "hey I've noticed you're reacting this way this you're a little bit quieter there is a something more we need to discuss here" Is that a summary of you're saying are there?

Are there other key elements that are equally important to identify and look for good self-awareness.

Brian

17:45

most of us are not as aware of ourselves as we believe we are
— Brian Germain

I think that that's an awfully large topic because most of us are not as aware of ourselves as we believe we are we all think there were we're sentient in every possible way. And I let you know we've got toilet paper hanging off of our shoe in so many different ways we've we have we have things about us that others can see that we can't see.

It's important to always be able to step out of the momentum of our thoughts, well we lose ourselves in the plot in the role that we play or at least the role that we believe that we're playing which is not always congruent and be able to create the space a moment where we stopped in reappraise and ask good questions.

I think that's one of the most important things in self-awareness is to ask ourselves good questions.

  • For example what is my real motivation? 
  • What really is driving me?
  • What am I afraid of in what do?
  • What do I want now and beyond this.

When I say what do I want beyond ego right what does my what does my organization need and want right it needs to meet one once it's two different leaders lower levels and higher levels of once I want some ice cream but I need to make more money we all right we all need to grow to give our dreams room to expand we need financing.

James

19:21

That’s great.

I think it's also interesting one of the key things that I try to also share is your own goals they may be apparently very different than the organization's goals okay however by helping the organization hit theirs that might secure your next year's pay rise which helps you towards your goal by encouraging and embracing some form of technological change that might well improve a skill that which broadens your scope on the job market.

So it's also about adopting a potentially perilous anxiety fear situation saying okay from this situation how can this be a win-win how can the organization win how can I win sometimes let's face it there's some short-term pain in and there is no benefit for the individual that's also part of the game that's part of a reality right and you can just notch that one in the chalkboard of wisdom in an experience.

But go right back to the book it be done mind's eye I think we've got a good grasp of some of the process steps which is fantastic both in life and in business I think we've been able to cover that quite well for anybody who will be reading this and hearing this what about going back to the three factors and I'm reading off from here your firmness as some of your some your writings about the sociological the psychological and physiological elements briefly although there's a whole book worth plus another book worth that never made it in the book.

I’m petrified of snakes but when I’m in nature I realize I hate the idea of snakes but I’m kind of curious when I see them
— James Doyle - JAMSO

What factors do you find are first of all maybe most common and secondly let's say the hardest to change or amongst the hardest to change and therefore what may need to be managed because you're the expert.

I don't know if you can ever totally conquer all fears but maybe there's a management of them and I mean my personal my personal experiences I'm petrified of snakes but when I'm in nature I realize I hate the idea of snakes but I'm kind of curious when I see them right and I'll keep a very respectful distance from.

Brian

22:15

 A harmless snake - no fear required

A harmless snake - no fear required

Well I think you're on to something great here because you don't necessarily need to be a snake lover perhaps you can be a snake appreciator to see there's the beauty and another one of these natural creatures that's managed to survive would it quite a bit longer than humanity right yeah you can appreciate how their means of motility and their means of acquiring food and all this stuff and how do they stay alive in the winter and all that.

But is it is it necessary to make what we are most afraid of something that we have the greatest affinity for not necessarily but we need to warm up to it so that we can examine the validity of our fears to be afraid of all snakes is not seen because most snakes are not poisonous you're right to be concerned about an actual you know fer-de-lance or some sort of you know snake that has toxic venom that if he gets oh he's going to kill you that is a very different story.

But if you're afraid of the pattern recognition program of a rubber snake that catches the corner of your eye and you know to see well that's not completely sane is it.

 Forms of evolution

Forms of evolution

And so to upgrade off of the initial software then and that was you know given to us in the operating system from our computer right what are the pattern recognition programs of arachnids rate of spiders of all these other things of eye contact you know there's a lot of things that human beings are given in our basic software package that we're sculpted through evolution sculpted through a genetic hand-me-down process that may or may not be sane or rational today.

But they made sense when that genetic structure and that mimetic structure that somehow gets passed down was put in the program in this same way that the means of our society and the assumptions of our culture creates fear.

The face value assumptions that we make about someone next to us on a train based on what they look like whether it causes a warmth or an aversion.

You know or a downright fear or a downright move to the next train car behavior pattern where we could be moving away from an opportunity right it's basically no you'll fear no you examine your fear get close enough to it without rushing straight towards to the edge of the cliff because there is real danger in this world.

James

24:55

If we look at those three elements our sociological the physiological and the psychological what are the three within those three areas that influence fear what steps would you say people should be looking to either manage or identify.

What's the key messages that you can share on those three?

Brian

25:25

It all begins with feeling and physiological doesn't it.

I mean we assign these circumstances whether it's a sociological thing right a reason where we expect to become afraid due to a programming process through the media right through watching movies from all of this stuff where we are

We are just stimulus and response we're you know single-cell organism behavior patterns or something else, either way, it's a physical response and if we get carried away with the physical response then we close down our options cognitively or reexamine with the validity of something or benefit allotted of something it's eclipsed by the intense emotion.

And so I think step one is always to do the things that deescalate the emotion a little bit and you know that place of taking the deep breath and letting out slowly you know slowing down.

That's the biggest message of all slowing down not just the breath but the thought process the actions so that you have a little bit of slack in the system it's reducing the rpm so that you can choose to change gears from it.

if we get carried away with the physical response then we close down our options cognitively or reexamine with the validity of something
— Brian Germain

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James

26:48

From a business perspective could not be done in a way of you can never communicate enough just when you think you've communicated do it again right now is that also part of this is that by again going back over again it allows the cognitive processing it allows people at their own pace because everyone's slightly different yeah.

So to understand what they are in fear of better so that they can understand their own reaction to it and then maybe start to make some judgments on the other behaviors around them well actually okay Wow well Bob over there and Sheila, over there they seem to be maybe not so bothered so maybe I ought not to be as well .

Brain

27:42

That is not something I think there's the social aspect. It's extremely important because it can bump up our physical response can't it. We are not all the same. I mean in the way that we process adrenaline the way that we process the world some people are a lot cooler just naturally and others are very excitable and the ones who prefer a cool environment are really annoyed by the people who tend to be excitable and yet the truth is often handed to the social environment through the one person who is the canary in the coalmine the loud responder who has a physical response that is so intense that their voice gets louder they get intense on the situation

And on other people and then you have this dichotomy of roles that keeps playing itself out don't we. Where we have the angry alarmist and then the other person who invalidates anything they say because of the package in which the information was passed on right you're ruining my buzz I was having a nice coffee and you're freaking out about something and the truth is what they're freaking out freaking out about might be a really big deal and to invalidate that is going to create a weak point in in the information gathering system that is an organization

 Risk and Reward in Racing

Risk and Reward in Racing

And so I think that's very important to honor and respect those who are connected to their bodies in a way where the emotion bubbles up like a volcano exploding. That, that group of people need to notice within themselves how they're doing it, in temper their temper right so there's those there's a meeting in the middle where the people who tend to be physically hotter take the deep breath and calm down in consider that the other person's emotional response to the way that they're passing on the information matters in terms of the effectiveness of their passing on of information right.

What you're freaked out about what you're angry about or afraid about might be valid but if you don't create the behavioral change that you're looking for to create a greater level of safety or the improvement that's necessary well what's the point of saying anything at all you might as well lock yourself in the bathroom and scream.

Which makes the best choice sometimes to give anything to go out in the nature and scream at the top of your lungs and calm down and get the emotional edge off and then come back into the situation with skillful means right is one of the most important things that I've ever heard the idea of being able to pass on information with skillful means.

So that you're not flaring up the other's egos so they're not layering up their pattern recognition programs of when in doubt ignore the screaming person because screaming is against the rules right emotion is against the rules well that's not saying either that's not leading up to explosives so this is this is high-level high intensity emotional intelligence that we're talking about.

Where we play at the top you know the top working its way down and the bottom working its way up so we can meet in the middle and create a team framework.

Yeah that is exciting and fun and we're playing different roles right some people are rowing the boat and others are standing up on top of the crow's nest deciding where to row and barking you know the cadence we all have our roles to play at each different moment we made reversing roles but to honor each other’s roles.

James

31:32

It goes right back to what you said earlier you know everyone is different what I'm hearing from what you're saying if as an example there is going to be a role of a new change and within an organization you need to respect the character types within the within the business allow for a bit of an expense a bit of hotheaded discussion allowing people also to have say time away let them show off and in nature or maybe down the pub so the family or whatever is in the car park or whatever and then come back the next day,

I'm hearing from you to actually to say okay with good guidance with some critical discussion with some and not in a negative manner but from the critical thinking from an objective perspective so then guide through and say okay more what does this mean to you as an individual how can we help this situation for you this is what we think what do you feel do you see the same that what else do we need to

33:03

Brian

To understand is that roughly a summary of the process it's great.

The ability for an organization large or small to be responsive, to be intelligent, to take the microcosm of the human brain when the alarms are going off in the amygdala and the old reptilian brain is taking over and the fight-flight and freeze behavior patterns start to become natural the prefrontal cortex right the higher cognitive functioning the ability to envision beyond the given data to be creative and in solution setting to find new ways beyond what's happened in the past.

An organization needs to think with a higher mind to a higher road.

Oftentimes what appears to be an impasse between us is this higher road that neither one of us is well before and so we have to get beyond our emotions on our emotions recognize that other people have different kinds of emotions different ways of processing and not come together in dissonance but to sort of keep enough space when there are high-intensity emotions to let people do what they're doing let them work their way out until they're calm enough that we can synchronize and work together to work as a team.

Because we do have it superordinate goal of kicking butt together it's fun it's fun to find a way with the multitude of personality types that are all necessary right.

When we watched and launch people to the moon and they walked around and picked up rocks and brought him back it wasn't just the science and engineering types of the goddess there were all types of human beings working together it's not an easy thing to do and yet I think that's the best thing that humans can do.

35:00

James

That's the perfect analogy for another question I wanted to ask was part of the hurdle with fear of the challenge of addressing fear we come from a background of a sport within skydiving where visualization is used well and very successfully.

The moon shot is a classic business goal setting phrase you've just referred to landing on the moon and you know no one knew really what that could be like at first but at some point they had to visualize that so that the what was a technological challenge became knowledge and therefore fear for the engineering fear for the astronauts themselves fear for the whole support systems was then satisfied effectively and what I mean by satisfied is that they became fully aware what are the real risks yeah it's dangerous on the on the moon.

36:12

Brian

That’s right.

But it's not it's like yeah the danger is not infinite in any given situation.

There's not a number of variables that you have to contend with you're not going to be dealing with lava balls getting launched the sky at you while you're walking around on the moon that's one less thing what about alien creatures.

No, not on the moon no it's a dead rock. What else can I set focus in on the real risk .

What are these specific things and I might have to go to great lengths to mitigate those things to create safe safety protocols and in objects you know that I'm taking with me they're going to create a higher level of safety.

But I have to bring in that's very special kind of sanity it comes from isolating variables and addressing them one by one and that's not fear-based thinking right it might be fear that raised the red flag you know that I feel an emotional thing okay well why do you feel the emotional thing let's get specific let's isolate and control those variables.

James

37:21

There's a huge field of thought about positive thinking okay utilization of affirmation self-talk a whole bunch of tools that you're far more of an expert than what I could ever be.

When that's applied to tackling fear what point can that actually be dangerous at what point that cannot be delusional at what point can that provide the wrong level of confidence how is that managed how would you suggest that that's not I find that?

Brian:

38:02

as long as I'm in touch with my gut with my physical sensations in my body if I keep constructing a visualization an elaborate visualization in which I do succeed right a plausible success story about a possible future.

As long as I can see through that step by step with getting the crunch in my body, well the chances are this is a sane possibility it may not be an easy possibility you might require effort and steps and training and behavior you know beyond what I've done in the past and in elements of tools that I don't know yet right.

But if I can go through that process without getting the crunch the physical crunch and people say well yeah but my gut doesn't seem to work I've tried and in I am scared all the time a bit every possibility whenever I try to envision dangerous things physical or our business wise whatever my conclusion is just going work for somebody else it's too scary to be an entrepreneur though you know no.

Don't BASE jump off a cliff if I can't picture myself doing it successfully.

And I say you got to start from a basic story of happiness. 

You have to start from a basic life belief system where you get up in the morning and you're thankful and you're happy and that happiness that background of normal happy right creates a system where you contrast to show up but if somebody is always negative if they're always the yeah. But person here's why we can't here be how here's why we shouldn't try if that's the role that you play it's habituated right it becomes a normal negative and now you're right your emotional guidance system will be a failure it's not going to work because if you're suffering from miserable bastard syndrome

James

40:12

How does somebody flip that's that bridge from see I'll give you one example I've never forgotten this.

I was probably about 17 - 18 years old and I work for an old diesel engine company in the West Country and UK no engineering company similar to it for many miles a guy had to work there for probably 30 40 years all of his life the department he worked in was a core heat treatment is and then engineer an area highly specialist yeah apologist skills off the scales for what was required there but lived in the area and had loved the job with a passion decision okay whirring sauce yep so certainly the guys 55:58

 Lister Diesel Engine 

Lister Diesel Engine 

I walked in saw the guy literally crying yeah and heartbroken everything else and he was a very pessimistic figure to be around for the rest of my duration whilst I was there around him.

A question to you in that situation Because there's also maybe the difference between fear and reality. How through fear can you address that kind of mentality?

How through fear can you or the processes of managing fear can you actually tackle such very real situations for many individuals and indeed entrepreneurs that you know business doesn't work actually on the plan B.

How would you suggest that someone looks at this?

42:11

Brian

I know the first step is acceptance.

Right,to accept the truth of what has occurred right and that doesn't mean that you're accepting fate beyond this point from this point lower no I've got control right and my response is changing my future and this is where the positive thinking if you will take some takes on right you can change the way you feel about the past sure.

But if you don't accept it you're not going to you know I feel great about the fact that I went bankrupt I'm just going to repeat that in my head until I feel great about it well that's called bullshitting yourself and you won't be able to swallow that pill no matter how many times you say it.

So might as well just accept how you really feel and not hate yourself for it in bringing in forgiveness right and so there has to be first that acceptance of the reality of what occurred and then the forgiveness of you know the fact that there were certain matters that were beyond my control I did what I could do.Maybe I could have done better and maybe I will do better now that I have this knowledge this contrast based learning right and so I'm going to, therefore, launch a new vision but I'm not going to assign an expectation of negativity just because the past has some failures in it right. You got to have a sort of a short memory of your past failures if you're going to be a success in high-risk environments,You have to be some would call a delusional but you have to believe that you're the effect of your positive attitude is greater than anything else there needs to be.

 

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James

43:59

Absolutely, there needs one question run from your own spur from your own personal experience because your background within started I mean you know I'm looking at a Rigger's machine sewing machine and behind for people are not aware of what that is it's equipment that is done to the highest safety standards which of course Brian needs to look in the mirror at the end of every stitch my guess to understands this is this is stitch that's going to hold weight if someone's life how do you overcome that fear level of responsibility that you have?

Brian

44:59

I don't dwell on the fear aspect.

I notice it when if it comes in in a flash moment of awareness I care that's instead of you I wear that as that's great I actually care about the outcome of my efforts. 

I'm going to lead that to reinvest my attention in the details my ability to step back and examine what I've done as if someone else is doing the inspecting as if as if someone else did the work to step back and if I don't like what I see I'm just going to redo it know what's right and it's not about wanting to be done so that I can leave I want to do a job well, in this case, it's my meaning underneath all of it then that motivates me and none of this is about fear.

If I dwell on the thoughts of the negative visualization of what would happen if I failed right what if I did a bad job and somebody died right because that's it's a real possibility for somebody who doesn't have as high a level of care as I do.

But I actually love skydivers yeah and that love becomes an investment in my intent attention in the detail work yeah in my ego serve dissolves from the city and I just say let's just do the job right if it takes me.

I mean there's times where I actually am back-stepping unpicking stitches for you know five or six hours in the process of building one parachute I'm going backward to go forward and whatever what's the difference in the end is a product that I'm proud of a product that I will see ten or in some cases twenty years down the road.

I've got parachutes that I still jump that I made 20 years ago where I could expect a mechanic and up that they're fine and I'll keep on jumping them it feels good and for me it's not an ego thing and it's not a fear-driven thing it's the positive spin on pride it's the feeling good about being part of something that is really special.

James

47:23

Within that personal story there yet that help someone take their own approach to addressing a fear type situation or a challenge type situation how they personally bring that care that accountability that responsibility that awareness those skills all of that in together so I hang on I've got such a big toolkit here. it will just come good right and I think that's also what I'm hearing from a processor but Brian I'm very conscious of time and just to ask a few other quick questions if you don't mind.

You've got one of the most, if not the most impressive I say you are "go-to" parachute safety guy. Full stop, period on online there's no one else out there that is doing such a good job as what you do for the fall for that and you're supporting various media sources out there and I would recommend anyone in everyone not just to listen to it because it's fascinating and informative but I think that Brian you've just described also comes through in your explanations the depth of your knowledge .

I really appreciate about it is when you're able to bring so many different angles and perspectives for your experience of what somebody else with its slightly less experience with slightly more experience might be thinking what they also need to be considered from that all those great skills you also bring to the public speaking world yeah and you're right they're also a fantastic speech that I've been sharing out on social media and continue to do that again which is very great for companies out there what from your perspective what are the what key areas do you think you would like to leave for an entrepreneur for a large organization to say hey here's what I'm about here's maybe what I can offer and here's where

Brian

Yeah, well I think the most important thing is that people decide on an inspiration based thought process, an inspiration based career, in the end you'll have fewer regrets won't you

 scaling a building

scaling a building

That's me that's the worst fail that we have available to us that if we look back on our lives in regret that we didn't take chances on the ideas that mattered to us personally.

Is it the idea that's going to change the world and save the world I don't know that's up to you but the one that you assign meaning to is the one that you're going to have the most bravery.

For once you begin the process of bearing the soft white underbelly of your caring right but keep it hidden right if you if you keep quiet about these ideas and you don't move forward into that risky zone that may require you know a little you know finagling and modifying and in and learning right expansion of your own skillset it is possible that you're going to run into all kinds of apparent failures along the way but what are you here for?

Are you here just to be born and live and then die and hopefully pass on something to the future generation if you happen to breed or are you here to create meaning through your own belief systems and move forward with it despite the fact that there is danger for you that to me this is the whole point of all of this stuff whether it is dealing with fear in a physical way or otherwise to choose courage from a reason.

51:42

James

Going back to the moon reference earlier one of the best examples most people can see today is you know you've got you-you've got the automotive sector stuck in the older internal combustion engine and you've got Tesla reaping the market through new innovative ideas and automotive sector and they've taken that on so they can learn an awful lot there from you that's for sure

52: 08

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Brian, I will make sure that loads and loads of links are put out there and so people can contact you and you know massive thank you is there anything else you'd like to say yeah well you know you're welcome to check out we've got a video channel on YouTube under my name Brian Germain we've got a really neat website adventure wisdom which for those that are learning to skydive will find it's very interesting transcending fear has a lot of good stuff if you're looking to move forward into those dark and scary zones in your life to create white rights a great expansion to create a larger version of you it's worthwhile that's worth the joint journey and I've I invite all of our viewers here too to step it up to step up your courage to nurture a larger version of you

53: 10

James

Thank you very much, Brian, really appreciate it would be of big value thank you.  

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 Do you recongnize any of these phrases you use?

Do you recongnize any of these phrases you use?

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